SO... where are we upto?

[Moggy]

I'm interested to see where we are upto???

i.e. I've read "somewhere" on here that we're having the site look at by geeks?... so whats the outcome???


I read that you want a new SAR...... so have we had any people interested?? or is it going to drag on longer than an American election????

People haven't been paying.... well I was one, but I paid before xmas... dunno how long I had been expired but I didn't have an email or a 'banner' but when I went to edit my info it said I had expired... so I paid

so...

anything else???

this is the problem.... while we don't need to know... its NICE TO KNOW.... get over this problem guys or we're gonna being going in circles until we fall over

[5teve L]

I'm interested to see where we are upto???

i.e. I've read "somewhere" on here that we're having the site look at by geeks?... so whats the outcome???


I read that you want a new SAR...... so have we had any people interested?? or is it going to drag on longer than an American election????

People haven't been paying.... well I was one, but I paid before xmas... dunno how long I had been expired but I didn't have an email or a 'banner' but when I went to edit my info it said I had expired... so I paid

so...

anything else???

this is the problem.... while we don't need to know... its NICE TO KNOW.... get over this problem guys or we're gonna being going in circles until we fall over

I'm sure Ian will be along with all the info soon enough, but..

The site was looked at, then nothing has been heard since, I believe Gordon may be discussing options as we speak.

a total of 2 people have applied for the SAR, I may put my name up, I have asked what it involves before committing myself.

I think Ian mentioned that Chris (Scoff) had sorted the expired members thing.

You are right though, we should be kept in the loop a little more, a little knowledge goes a long way sometimes.

Hopefully the Steve/Mart saga comes to a conclusion soon though as it has dragged on long enough.


That's all I know

[gtmatt]

Thanks for the update Steve it has gone all quite

[Big Steve - Raider]

Hopefully the Steve/Mart saga comes to a conclusion soon though as it has dragged on long enough.....

[Alex]

It's kind of difficult for the Committee to provide updates about every single thing frequently, especially when theres nothing very interesting to report! Generally speaking though:

The website - Not something I can accurately report on as I'm not a computer person. Ian S/Gordon B are looking into another provider I beleive, in an attempt to provide a better service.

SAR postion - Yes indeed we are after one. I have posted up the job role for anyone and evenyone who wants to apply. We have 1 definate person who has applied at present.

People that have not paid issue - Yeah weird one that and it's been something thats been very hard for anyone to notice. Scoff beleives it could be an issue with a bug on the website potentially. It's sorted now though.

Steve & Mart nonesense - This needs sorting ASAP and they'll be more on that soon. I beleive they both know what the Committee want from them.

That's generally the most important up to date stuff at the moment.

[Mart]

Alex, I can't talk for Steve, but I've had no contact from any CM's as to 'what the Committee want from them' in an official context.

[Trevhib]

Hi Mart.

I hope you guys get all this sorted out.

What the CM's require seems to have been laid out in Alex's thread here: https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=36239

"the committee need to understand how access was gained to the private boards...<and require> either <Mart or Steve> to provide an explanation."

[Mart]

Thanks Trev. Appreciated.

I don't understand why the CM's can't contact us directly, instead of airing the dirty laundry via 'power trip' esque posts for all to read?

Alex et all CM's - I've mentioned this several times already, so for the last time of saying it: I do not know who directly hacked or whatever that thread. Which part of that doesn't make sense?

My only 'guilt' in all this is deleting a thread, of which no-one was gonna subsequently be kept in the dark about. If you think that is worthy of a 6 month ban, then fine, crack on.

We'll simply ignore everything else I've done for the club over the past ~18 years eh...

[chris]

Thanks Trev. Appreciated.

I don't understand why the CM's can't contact us directly, instead of airing the dirty laundry via 'power trip' esque posts for all to read?

Alex et all CM's - I've mentioned this several times already, so for the last time of saying it: I do not know who directly hacked or whatever that thread. Which part of that doesn't make sense?

My only 'guilt' in all this is deleting a thread, of which no-one was gonna subsequently be kept in the dark about. If you think that is worthy of a 6 month ban, then fine, crack on.

We'll simply ignore everything else I've done for the club over the past ~18 years eh...

You saw the thread mart so you must know I would know who has done it if I had seen it ? Steve has copied and pasted the commitee response to you both over to Facebook is that airing the dirty laundry enough for you? I also accept this situation is damaging the club. Also I think at least you reply to the threads in a decent manner. Steve could of posted on here to discuss this but instead copy and paste's it over to Facebook I suspect he likes the drama, or maybe it's for attention ? And now we have people on Facebook calling commitee members all sorts and it's laughable because they don't know any of us what we do or who we are. But we have put the ball in yours and Steve's court now

[Big Steve - Raider]

You saw the thread mart so you must know I would know who has done it if I had seen it ? Steve has copied and pasted the commitee response to you both over to Facebook is that airing the dirty laundry enough for you? I also accept this situation is damaging the club. Also I think at least you reply to the threads in a decent manner. Steve could of posted on here to discuss this but instead copy and paste's it over to Facebook I suspect he likes the drama, or maybe it's for attention ? And now we have people on Facebook calling commitee members all sorts and it's laughable because they don't know any of us what we do or who we are. But we have put the ball in yours and Steve's court now

Would it not be easier to post the CM's response and then leave the thread open for us to reply to..... Rather than immediately lock it down?! It's like pin the tail on the donkey trying to find the right place to reply!

Anyway, I Put my side of the story down in one of the other threads that got locked by the CM...

If you're waiting for me to dob someone in for revealing what the Committee were saying about me then you might as well start my 6 month ban now as I ain't telling.

[chris]

Steve you really are a poor show of a man what about all the things you and your mates write about the members of the commitee your a hypocrite

[Big Steve - Raider]

Steve you really are a poor show of a man what about all the things you and your mates write about the members of the commitee your a hypocrite

Thank you Chris

[andybond]

Steve you really are a poor show of a man what about all the things you and your mates write about the members of the commitee your a hypocrite

Chris, from what I have seen of the CM boards , that is also hypocritical. CMs have written offensive things on there too.

This situation needs to stop , quickly before it sinks RTOC. I dont think it is fair of the CM to ask for information and threaten with a ban if not given especially after everything the restricted access ones have done.

[Mart]

Chris, if you're going to reply, then reply to me, about me/my post. If you have an issue with what Steve is or isn't doing, take it up with him on another post/PM.

For the umpeenth time of saying it, I saw screen-shots of that thread, which were emailed to me 3rd hand. I've since deleted the email & screen-shots, after I posted my thread about it in the 'bad threads' section a few weeks back (the one which you replied back in saying you had no problem talking to me face to face about it, or whatever the comment was now).

I don't know about your family health issues, nor have I read anything anywhere about it. I do have a heart though, so I'm sorry to hear that.

You're right, I have been replying & addressing all this in a decent manner; it's a shame the Committee hasn't.

As for the backlash on FB; the Committee brought this on theirself - They could've nipped this in the bud right from the start, let bygones be bygones, given us a slap on the wrist via a PM, etc etc, but no, they wanted to make a mountain out of a mole hill out of it. And for what? What is any of this actually going to achieve now?

[chris]

Chris, from what I have seen of the CM boards , that is also hypocritical. CMs have written offensive things on there too.

This situation needs to stop , quickly before it sinks RTOC. I dont think it is fair of the CM to ask for information and threaten with a ban if not given especially after everything the restricted access ones have done.

Not everyone likes each other that's not a revelation Andy I could find stuff mart and Steve have written about others but to sneak about hacking or however it was done isn't on when as said there's stuff on there that was personal but I have learnt my lesson there now

[gtmatt]

Chris, from what I have seen of the CM boards , that is also hypocritical. CMs have written offensive things on there too.

This situation needs to stop , quickly before it sinks RTOC. I dont think it is fair of the CM to ask for information and threaten with a ban if not given especially after everything the restricted access ones have done.

Agree with andy her,whoever wrote offensive things from the committee should give an apology IMO ,I've not seen any of the committee saying sorry for offensive comments, so the committee can write offensive comments but members can't ?? Very poor show

[andybond]

Not everyone likes each other that's not a revelation Andy I could find stuff mart and Steve have written about others but to sneak about hacking or however it was done isn't on when as said there's stuff on there that was personal but I have learnt my lesson there now

Hi Chris,

I know that not everyone gets along. Thats life. I can accept that. What I am referring to fella is that you cant have a pop at Steve saying things if others on the CM have had a pop at Steve. Thats the matter of fact.

Regarding the personal stuff , I don't believe anyone has commented positive or negative? That has been left well alone ?

I should hope that any personal stuff is done outside the boards for security reasons. Stuff like bank details / logons etc in case of a compromised situation.

[chris]

Agree with andy her,whoever wrote offensive things from the committee should give an apology IMO ,I've not seen any of the committee saying sorry for offensive comments, so the committee can write offensive comments but members can't ?? Very poor show

The thread that started on the commitee boards that got copied was in response to a lot of stuff written on Facebook Matt and we could go round in circles all day because if someone started talking crap about you what would you do ?

[chris]

Hi Chris,

I know that not everyone gets along. Thats life. I can accept that. What I am referring to fella is that you cant have a pop at Steve saying things if others on the CM have had a pop at Steve. Thats the matter of fact.

Regarding the personal stuff , I don't believe anyone has commented positive or negative? That has been left well alone ?

I should hope that any personal stuff is done outside the boards for security reasons. Stuff like bank details / logons etc in case of a compromised situation.

A lot of what is done on here is done using trust Andy so yea the cm boards being hacked is no good for the club . I also accept that once it starts with mud slinging it gets extremely difficult for it to stop because like it or not we are all just people and we all get angry say things and do things that on reflection weren't the best. Now as I keep repeating all I want to know is who did it once sorted I am happy to move on weather they read my thread or not that's where I stand on it

[Mart]

if someone started talking crap about you what would you do ?

[chris]

Chris, if you're going to reply, then reply to me, about me/my post. If you have an issue with what Steve is or isn't doing, take it up with him on another post/PM.

For the umpeenth time of saying it, I saw screen-shots of that thread, which were emailed to me 3rd hand. I've since deleted the email & screen-shots, after I posted my thread about it in the 'bad threads' section a few weeks back (the one which you replied back in saying you had no problem talking to me face to face about it, or whatever the comment was now).

I don't know about your family health issues, nor have I read anything anywhere about it. I do have a heart though, so I'm sorry to hear that.

You're right, I have been replying & addressing all this in a decent manner; it's a shame the Committee hasn't.

As for the backlash on FB; the Committee brought this on theirself - They could've nipped this in the bud right from the start, let bygones be bygones, given us a slap on the wrist via a PM, etc etc, but no, they wanted to make a mountain out of a mole hill out of it. And for what? What is any of this actually going to achieve now?

I don't dis like you mart lets just get that clear. There's times that you have annoyed me and I suspect I have done the same for you . I also think both sides of this argument could of dealt with this better and got it sorted a lot sooner I don't accept it's the commitee making a mountain out of a mole hill if the source of the leak was disclosed weeks ago then this would of been long over with it damages the commitee but more importantly it damages the club.

[andybond]

hacked

Chris.

I have said this to a few people now.

It wasn't hacked. Hacking means a security exploit , or accessing something via a vulnerability. It wasn't that. The boards are vulnerable to several exploits as documented on the web. I haven't checked ( and as far as I know no one else has ) to see if they have been implemented. There are a few give aways to the exploits so you would notice. ( one isnt someone distributing the CM thread btw )

I know that the information you are wanting wont be given up. I also know that if the information was given up , you wouldn't gain anything from it. The criteria for the restrictions have also changed as time has gone on.

All that this is proving at the minute are the things that keep going around in other threads about transparency, name calling and closed doors.

Its frustrating enough trying to reason sometimes , then coming back and a CM has closed the thread. So a new one is created and repeat.

Something needs to change. Quickly. I know an equal number on both sides. If I were king of the hill , I would look at a cease fire from both sides. Sit down and talk ( behind closed doors or PM ) and work through things. Miller , I am looking at you here.

Its frustrating ( to both sides ! ) that issues are not resolved and things cannot be let go.

[Big Steve - Raider]

if someone started talking crap about you what would you do ?

Case in point...

Steve you really are a poor show of a man what about all the things you and your mates write about the members of the commitee your a hypocrite

[Mart]

Hold on. It was only today (Alex's thread) that Steve & I finally found out what it was that the Committee wanted from us.

At no point did any of you contact us before then explaining what the score is, and how this was to be resolved.

I've already, repeatedly, said I don't know who it was. So are you gonna ban me on the basis of not knowing who the person in question was/is? Utter madness.

I know I'm regularly ignored on here, but feck me, this is a whole new level!

[chris]

Chris.

I have said this to a few people now.

It wasn't hacked. Hacking means a security exploit , or accessing something via a vulnerability. It wasn't that. The boards are vulnerable to several exploits as documented on the web. I haven't checked ( and as far as I know no one else has ) to see if they have been implemented. There are a few give aways to the exploits so you would notice. ( one isnt someone distributing the CM thread btw )

I know that the information you are wanting wont be given up. I also know that if the information was given up , you wouldn't gain anything from it. The criteria for the restrictions have also changed as time has gone on.

All that this is proving at the minute are the things that keep going around in other threads about transparency, name calling and closed doors.

Its frustrating enough trying to reason sometimes , then coming back and a CM has closed the thread. So a new one is created and repeat.

Something needs to change. Quickly. I know an equal number on both sides. If I were king of the hill , I would look at a cease fire from both sides. Sit down and talk ( behind closed doors or PM ) and work through things. Miller , I am looking at you here.

Its frustrating ( to both sides ! ) that issues are not resolved and things cannot be let go.

I see what your saying the trouble is you would think if it wasn't one of the 2 lads then someone would be brave enough to admit to it rather than letting the other 2 take the wrap . Your right this is going round in circles and for both sides it's a crap situation but neither side wants to feel as tho they have given in/ lost. Hell I would even settle for how it was done ex commitee member with access still? and what was copied .and then for me it's over with. I have learnt my lesson even tho it's a so called private board it doesn't mean that's the case. And if it wasn't for my personal thread I wouldn't care

[Adey aka Ewok]

Hell I would even settle for how it was done ex commitee member with access still? and what was copied .and then for me it's over with.

thing is that's you, are you talking as a speaker for the committee or is it still there decision if information was to come forward?

[chris]

Case in point...

That's called retaliation Steve. You have gone above and beyond with some of the comments you have made on Facebook compared to what was said in the commitee thread .So please stop making out your a victim and hold your hands up as well. We have all done and said things that haven't helped the situation

[chris]

thing is that's you, are you talking as a speaker for the committee or is it still there decision if information was to come forward?

That's me and my personal feelings. But I could ask the rest of the commitee if that was good enough to get this sorted ?

[Adey aka Ewok]

That's me and my personal feelings. But I could ask the rest of the commitee if that was good enough to get this sorted ?

oh no im not asking that because i know something, just more into the workings of the cm. you would be happy, the powers at be wouldnt

[Big Steve - Raider]

...the powers at be wouldn't

The CRUX of the issue...

[chris]

oh no im not asking that because i know something, just more into the workings of the cm. you would be happy, the powers at be wouldnt

That may be the case. This has dragged on long enough that if we could just get this sorted quicker then I honestly think that would be the best outcome. But the commitee makes decisions as a group so I can't promise anything

[Adey aka Ewok]

so whats the answer? there have been posts from cm's saying they would like to know, but how do the committee as a whole want to go about getting it resolved?

[chris]

It was all outlined in Commitees post to the two lads adey. But as to how we get this resolved quickly and both sides can move on I don't know

[Rob1980]

As a complete neutral I see it like this:- In the eyes of the law you are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until you prove your innocence. With this in mind it is quite unreasonable to ask the accused to prove their innocence.

Unless I have missed something then the whole case regarding Mart and Steve is circumstantial. Unless it can be proved beyond any doubt that they "hacked" the private boards or it can be proved that they know who did it then the benefit of the doubt must go to the accused. This is how our free world works and I personally believe that this should be followed.

It appears to me that people are letting personal feelings towards each other get in the way. Please take a step back and look at the hard facts and evidence. As always there may be something that I am not aware of or have missed, if so then please accept my apologies. I am just offering a point of view that I have gained by what has been written in past and previous threads.

[TopCat]

As a complete neutral I see it like this:- In the eyes of the law you are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until you prove your innocence. With this in mind it is quite unreasonable to ask the accused to prove their innocence.

Unless I have missed something then the whole case regarding Mart and Steve is circumstantial. Unless it can be proved beyond any doubt that they "hacked" the private boards or it can be proved that they know who did it then the benefit of the doubt must go to the accused. This is how our free world works and I personally believe that this should be followed.

It appears to me that people are letting personal feelings towards each other get in the way. Please take a step back and look at the hard facts and evidence. As always there may be something that I am not aware of or have missed, if so then please accept my apologies. I am just offering a point of view that I have gained by what has been written in past and previous threads.

well said.

Time the committee grew a pair and made a decision & stop dragging it out. I'm pretty sure I speak for the majority that this has gone on for long enough.

Ban them or reinstate them, it's not a difficult decision FFS.

[5teve L]

Right, the way I see it, a thread pops up in the CM boards & a few names are mentioned, thread gets put in public, those people get the arse (& rightly so) & pull threads (wrongly) yadda yadda, committee have a bit of a knee jerk reaction as alot goes on in a few hours, which in hindsight you have to say, may have been orchestrated or it was just one of those times the timing just made everything fall in place at once which made it 'look' suspicious.


Whichever way you look at it, it has been allowed to go to far, Steve, dragging it up every opportunity has not, IMO, helped you at all.

[gtmatt]

The thread that started on the commitee boards that got copied was in response to a lot of stuff written on Facebook Matt and we could go round in circles all day because if someone started talking crap about you what would you do ?

Chris I would just accept apologys for the comments mate , it's just a poor show that you are doing all the talking for the committee ,the committee members with the issues need to sort this out ,it's wrong mate like adey said it's you doing all the talking all time the chairman should ring Steve and mart or contact via email directly , why drag it out on the boards , it's the committee destroying this club in my eyes and most members will be argeeing with me .

[andybond]

Whichever way you look at it, it has been allowed to go to far, Steve, dragging it up every opportunity has not, IMO, helped you at all.

Its not like he could PM anyone about it Steve

The lad is stuck in limbo here really. If it were me and I hadnt heard anything I would be bringing it up too ...

[Red October]

Whats going on on Facebook is cringeworthy to be honest.
Its making the members look like antisocial idiots.
Its making the club look like antisocial idiots.

All involved should take a long hard look in the mirror and decide their mental ages, peoples respect for the club and eachother is getting pi$$ed all over and is affecting the whole scene for the worse.

I understand peolple are pi$$ed at each other but its bringing the whole renault turbo scene into disrepute irrespective whether or not your pro RTOC or RTOF.

Sort it in private or sort it NOW, dont prolong the agony, like a divorce just make sure you look after the kids

[Mart]

If we had PM access, I'm fairly sure this would've been sorted privately. However, we haven't, threads keep getting locked before we can reply, and no-one from the Committee has been in direct contact to us about it all.

That kinda limits our options.

[Mart]

Edit. And as I also posted above, it is they that made the mountain out of a mole hill, not us.

[Big Steve - Raider]

If we had PM access, I'm fairly sure this would've been sorted privately. However, we haven't, threads keep getting locked before we can reply, and no-one from the Committee has been in direct contact to us about it all.

That kinda limits our options.

Ok, so I've killed off the RTOC FB thread. Next move is the Committee's.

[Red October]

If we had PM access, I'm fairly sure this would've been sorted privately. However, we haven't, threads keep getting locked before we can reply, and no-one from the Committee has been in direct contact to us about it all.

That kinda limits our options.

Mart ive never met you and from what ive been told you have been a fantastic member and enthusiast for many many years which no one can take away. I understand your point 110%.

You've got to ask youself whether or not you want to continue or champion another thats how I'd feel.

This owning up issue will never happen and the situation will never cease.

Its decision time for all pal including the CM imo because the magnanimous man/men would see its hurting everything we all stand for Renault Turbo's

[paul b]

I have to speak up here too,


I have been a member since 1998 so I have seen a fair amount on here, always been a decent "grown up" site...
what I have seen on the boards for the last few weeks is utter sh1te and really needs to be sorted , in private, calls or PM's ...
NO ONE is guilty until proven otherwise or we run into a dictatorship, if thats the case then what the hell has gone wrong..???

IF someone has talked crap about someone else, private or not, expect the back lash in some form or another, talk sh1t about an ex wife and expect your car to be smashed up,
talk sh1t about a member behind their back and expect the consequences or man/woman up and say "sorry" , Like grown up's do...

I am only guessing on here but something has been said behind closed doors, for whatever reason have been opened... get over it, nothing is ever going to be secure because as long as 1 other person reads something then it has a possibility of being leaked..
don't want someone to know?????, then DON"T feckin say/type it in the first place....


Sorry to sound like Dad but someone , maybe more need a good slap around the ear and sending to bed to early, this is way beyond the naughty step now...
GROW UP.

[rs250nut]

I think you all need to wind your necks in, no offence but this has gone on long enough. This talk of no one wants to back down, what becuase you dont want to mug yourselves off? Piss poor imo, No one is bigger than the club but it seems you guys are trying to look after your own egos, like I said in the other thread you guys are acting like children and doing nothing but long term damage to the club, well done.

[Moggy]

right WOW i asks a few little questions.......

but for ONCE can we hear from the chairman... i.e. all you other CM members - shut the &^%$ up

or do we not have one any more?????

tbh the only person who i've really seen try and calm things down are Ashy and Alex, others I've had pm's from 'newer' members and 'new' CM members asking me why do I keep sticking my nose in and why don't I stand up and help....

to answer that, I did in the past and once burnt.......

SO..... lets have a statement from our Chairperson stating whats going on, these are the facts, if not, Its time to put a new structure/team in place as its obvious to me that a few people on the committee are now running the club for their own gains/aims and the Chairperson has lost control of the club.

not much to ask is it.....So I now await to be banned....

[Ashy]

its obvious to me that a few people on the committee are now running the club for their own gains/aims

Who are you talking about Moggy? And what do you think they hope to gain?

[Hoolio]

Moggy, so what are your questions? I agree with most of what you seem to mean, it needs someone who is seen to be "untainted" by all this to step in and make a few decisions but that will only work if everyone accepts those and I guess as he has been absent that is Miller.
Also have to agree with Ashy though, wooly phrases like the above don't actually mean anything and just stir the sh*t some more.

[Moggy]

Ashy: who knows, but it seems a few are very quick to defend themselves. perhaps that just the way I see people..... what do they hope to gain; who knows, as they won't get a lot off here will they!!!!!

Hoolio; there are no questions, all I know is... if whatshisface who runs the country was never seen or never heard of, I know I wouldn't take much notice of any of his 'whatever you call it' people that help him run the country......

and its not to stir the shit as you put it.... i've been around here long enough and banned enough times to ask the right questions to get me banned! that wasn't one of them

its plain and simple.... If we have a chairperson, they should be the one telling us what is happening, and perhaps controlling certain committee members who seem to take everything so personally????

lets face it.... posts have been seen. perhaps just titles, maybe more. personally I couldn't care, but if people in there have been slagging people who can't see if off for whatever reason, they should be man enough or woman enough to stand up and say it to their face....

In my eyes the CM boards should be for discussion of accounts, and whats happening with events/website matters/problems, not somewhere for a select few to sit and throw stones on the minions below, perhaps that should be policed/moderated more than the 'normal' boards?

just a thought

[chris]

Ashy: who knows, but it seems a few are very quick to defend themselves. perhaps that just the way I see people..... what do they hope to gain; who knows, as they won't get a lot off here will they!!!!!

Hoolio; there are no questions, all I know is... if whatshisface who runs the country was never seen or never heard of, I know I wouldn't take much notice of any of his 'whatever you call it' people that help him run the country......

and its not to stir the shit as you put it.... i've been around here long enough and banned enough times to ask the right questions to get me banned! that wasn't one of them

its plain and simple.... If we have a chairperson, they should be the one telling us what is happening, and perhaps controlling certain committee members who seem to take everything so personally????

lets face it.... posts have been seen. perhaps just titles, maybe more. personally I couldn't care, but if people in there have been slagging people who can't see if off for whatever reason, they should be man enough or woman enough to stand up and say it to their face....

In my eyes the CM boards should be for discussion of accounts, and whats happening with events/website matters/problems, not somewhere for a select few to sit and throw stones on the minions below, perhaps that should be policed/moderated more than the 'normal' boards?

just a thought

Are you referring to me moggy taking things personally? And the commitee boards aren't used to slag people off mate.