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  1. #51
    International Area Rep Tutuur's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Wouldnt even need the 197 head. Machining the 172 head will do exactly the same!
    Machining the pistons is also a possibility...

  2. #52
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutuur View Post
    Wouldnt even need the 197 head. Machining the 172 head will do exactly the same!
    Machining the pistons is also a possibility...
    but i take it the 197 head has better flow hence the 197 instead of the 172 (im sure the mapping has something to do with it) but if its a straight swap and has has a larger squish area to lower the C/R

    you just chuck it on instant 9:1 C/R no compromise to piston crown thickness

    instant turbo engine

  3. #53
    Non-member Brigsy's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    What renault is the exhaust manifold off?

  4. #54
    Non-member Spooky's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    A Megane apparently, not the R26 either.

  5. #55
    International Area Rep Tutuur's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    the 197 head was just part off the experiment. it's not a straight swap, they had to drill holes for the belt tensioner.

    this was a tryout for a conversion program mwn want to do and when they are going to do it they told to machine the 172 instead of using the 197 head...

    this is the thread:
    http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showt...ight=mwm+turbo

  6. #56
    Committee Member Sparkie's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    btw - bypass for the immobiliser on 2001onwards clios......

    http://www.hickleys.com/pdf/renault/rae.pdf

  7. #57
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie View Post
    btw - bypass for the immobiliser on 2001onwards clios......

    http://www.hickleys.com/pdf/renault/rae.pdf
    looks like its just a wire to make a circuit back to one of the pins in the OBD scocket...............any one know which pin does which in the ODB plugs in a clio!!!!!!!!


    ive a uch which tells my dash im doing 60 in a 30 and have crazy ABS as a result

    this might just save me trying to remove and replace the immobiliser (NOT THAT I KNOW WHERE IT IS ON THE pcb) from my UCH and possibly screwing up both UCH'S

  8. #58
    Motech Tony Walker's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    uchs arent coded.

  9. #59
    Motech Tony Walker's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    think there around £140 ish from renault... just plug and play, swap all the fuses. cant understand why thats affecting your abs tho?

  10. #60
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Walker View Post
    think there around £140 ish from renault... just plug and play, swap all the fuses. cant understand why thats affecting your abs tho?
    heres the story i swapped a engine out of a 1.4 16v clio into my 1.4 16v clio

    the new clio i took the engine out of had rain sensitive wipers and other things i didnt (hence why i dont have intermittent on my wiper stork )

    i had to swap the key, the UCH and engine ecu..........but its as if the clocks and abs and wiper stork dont work with the new UCH

    the speedo effects the abs as it thinks the fronts are doing 60 when the backs are doing 30 according to my snap on ethos so i can only think when i break its like "o **** its gonna lock up, pulses the break pedal"


    i need my old UCH to work my wipers, air con, speedo but it doesnt run the engine due to the wrong key and engine ecu

    basically if i could have my new immobiliser code on my old UCH id be

    i think my new engine ecu, UCH and key are not compatible with my car

    help please

    last time i looked i seen prices for a UCH AROUND 400 +CODING!!!!

  11. #61
    Motech Tony Walker's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    i c never had to change a clio uch, lots of megane uch's there not coded, cant understand why renault coded the clios i guess you could pull the fuse on the abs? strange how the two clios arent the same. what years were the two cars?

  12. #62
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Walker View Post
    i c never had to change a clio uch, lots of megane uch's there not coded, cant understand why renault coded the clios i guess you could pull the fuse on the abs? strange how the two clios arent the same. what years were the two cars?
    i did pull the abs but looses the speedo lmao ive a new slogan for renault

    RENAULT...... LIFE'S A BITCH

    clios 51 and a dynamic and the donor was 53 and cant remember but better

    engines were the same just wish i never threw the first ecu out

    mot is coming up so the cars going the scrap yard as it wont get a mot with a abs light, a air bag light and a engine light on

  13. #63
    Non-member tubbyG's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by steer from the rear View Post
    Mot is coming up so the cars going the scrap yard as it wont get a mot with a abs light, a air bag light and a engine light on
    dont be too hasty, perhaps you could just remove the dash bulbs for these issues just to get the years ticket

    You can get them sorted afterwards

  14. #64
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    New poster! (less than 10 posts)

    I had this turbo kit from Engine Dynamics fitted to my 172 cup and was by far the best money i spent and never had any problems with it and was so much fun.

  15. #65
    Non-member Markey Mark (BD)'s Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by benl83 View Post
    New poster! (less than 10 posts)

    I had this turbo kit from Engine Dynamics fitted to my 172 cup and was by far the best money i spent and never had any problems with it and was so much fun.
    Which kit did you go for?

    I'm saving the money up to send my Clio 172 over there to have the high boost 280bhp kit fitted

  16. #66
    Non-member andybond's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    I had one that was similar to ED kit. It went like chuff !

  17. #67
    Non-member Ricardo's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    It's rearing it's ugly head again

    I'm asking myself the question yet again, the difference this time is I have the cash to purchase the ED kit outright...... So why am I stalling? The PMT in me still stupidly thinks it can be done cheaper......

  18. #68
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    It's rearing it's ugly head again

    I'm asking myself the question yet again, the difference this time is I have the cash to purchase the ED kit outright...... So why am I stalling? The PMT in me still stupidly thinks it can be done cheaper......
    Thats an affliction we all suffer from Ricardo

  19. #69
    Non-member Ricardo's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    It's bugging the hell outta me Steve

  20. #70
    International Area Rep Tutuur's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Have a look on Cliosport, AndyRG on there has built quite a few boosted Clio's and has started a company.

    Lot's of boosted Clio's popping up there all being done by him.

    I can't see higher boost being a problem, just fit Megane pistons, Turn off the vvt, fit a t28/gt28 and ofcourse all the ancilliaries to get it working.

  21. #71
    Non-member Ricardo's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutuur View Post
    Have a look on Cliosport, AndyRG on there has built quite a few boosted Clio's and has started a company.

    Lot's of boosted Clio's popping up there all being done by him.

    I can't see higher boost being a problem, just fit Megane pistons, Turn off the vvt, fit a t28/gt28 and ofcourse all the ancilliaries to get it working.
    I've already spoken to him

    That's another option

    Megane as in F4RT pistons?

  22. #72
    International Area Rep Tutuur's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Yup, only doenside to them is they don't have valve pockets so you would have to leave vvt disabled. Or fit a megane pulley so you also get rid of the annoying dephaser

  23. #73
    Non-member SP33DY's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    DIY all day everyday heres my thread from ClioSport

    http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showt...300-Turbo-Clio

    And heres a step by step photo guide on my Photobucket on how to install a low boost conversion. (organise oldest first)

    http://s274.photobucket.com/user/SP3...?sort=2&page=1

    Why people would want un qualified numpties working on their car I really have no idea , at least if you do it yourself if it goes wrong you'll have an idea on how to fix it.

  24. #74
    Non-member Mart's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Aii, what you need Ricky is a weekend...a project weekend...a project weekend with some winter headwear

  25. #75
    Non-member Andrew Cooke's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    make sure you use our discount code when looking at ED prices, the discount is significant - manifold, IC pipes etc. It might also be worth having a chat with Scoff.

  26. #76
    Non-member r5 rich's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    If you can get ED down to around 3k for the 280bhp conversion I don`t even think its worth touching it yourself. The time and effort you put in to try save will probably just cost more in the long run.

  27. #77
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    I wanted bigger brakes for my 21 but the only kit available was £1200, for 325mm bells/rotors & 4-pots, Off the shelf.

    I made my own for just shy of £600, but it took time and effort and patience. Ironically the calipers and pads I used are the same ones in the £1200 kit, but I made my own hangers and sourced some 330mm discs that were a straight fit to my hubs (Clio V6 330mm fronts, 5x108 stud and 57.something mm spigot, identical to the R21T). £600 saved, a few months of messing about on and off, and my hangers are a little heavier than what I would have bought with the kit.

    On the flipside, I paid Scoff to fit my Adaptronic to the 21. I bought the unit, the wiring, triggerwheel, blah blah blah but weighing up the options, my skill level with the application at hand, and what was at risk against the cost of paying Scoff to do it for me led to the easy choice of shipping the car off to EFI Parts.

    So- can you be arsed with time, effort and messing about to save some money? More to the point, do you have the technical skill to do it? Saving £500 is great, but only if it doesn't grenade itself after 50 miles. Think of the extra cost of the kit as insurance....do you want to be "insured" against issues?

  28. #78
    Non-member r5 rich's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-Cl...item27dcb73b72


    something already done with extra bits like gearbox, ecu etc

  29. #79
    Non-member Ricardo's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Do we get discount with ED?

    Andy, Dave, Rich, i think you're right. The hard work has been done with the kit, all i do is buy it having the reassurance that the research and development (with Scoffs mapping) has been done. I think Matt @Codered is dreading the next phonecall from me

    Now thinking for the extra money its probably worth going forged pistons for the 280bhp.

    My ultimate aim is to have it done by Sangliers in June

  30. #80
    Non-member Ricardo's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mart View Post
    Aii, what you need Ricky is a weekend...a project weekend...a project weekend with some winter headwear
    Project

    I'll be calling ED on Monday, the kit still needs fitting. The engine will come out and have a refresh inside and out, powdercoated parts etc.

  31. #81
    Committee, Shop Manager, SE Regional Rep Bigfoot's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Do we get discount with ED?
    Details are in the contacts section

  32. #82
    Non-member Matt@CodeRedMotorsports's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Do we get discount with ED?

    Andy, Dave, Rich, i think you're right. The hard work has been done with the kit, all i do is buy it having the reassurance that the research and development (with Scoffs mapping) has been done. I think Matt @Codered is dreading the next phonecall from me

    Now thinking for the extra money its probably worth going forged pistons for the 280bhp.

    My ultimate aim is to have it done by Sangliers in June


    .........

  33. #83
    Non-member Ricardo's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot View Post
    Details are in the contacts section
    Ooh... That's good, just seen it

  34. #84
    International Area Rep Tutuur's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Why go forged pistons? Seriously i would strongly advice using the megane pistons.

    Forged pistons need more wall to piston clearance because of the expand ratio. Thus every cold start will cause more wear than with normal pistons. The megane pistons are proven over 300bhp so i don't see the problem tbh.

  35. #85
    Non-member Mart's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    For what this conversion may end up potentially costing, and just throwing you another idea into the equation, why not sell the Clio & buy a Megane 225/230 instead?

    ~£4k for a reasonable 225/F1 team, or a couple of bags more opens up the 230/R26 option, which has the LSD in situ.

  36. #86
    International Area Rep Tutuur's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    There's a LY 250 engine'd clio 3 sport for sale on Cliosport for 9k.

    Absolutely lovely car, shame the steering wheel is on the wrong side for me!

  37. #87
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mart View Post
    For what this conversion may end up potentially costing, and just throwing you another idea into the equation, why not sell the Clio & buy a Megane 225/230 instead?

    ~£4k for a reasonable 225/F1 team, or a couple of bags more opens up the 230/R26 option, which has the LSD in situ.
    This would be my option.

  38. #88
    Non-member Ricardo's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mart View Post
    For what this conversion may end up potentially costing, and just throwing you another idea into the equation, why not sell the Clio & buy a Megane 225/230 instead?

    ~£4k for a reasonable 225/F1 team, or a couple of bags more opens up the 230/R26 option, which has the LSD in situ.
    I did think that, i mean what would 6k get me Megane wise? Why stop there, what would buy me anything hot for 6k.

    The flipside in doing the Clio

    Power to weight against the likes of a Megane 225/250, Ford RS Focus etc

    Something achieved in having a 280bhp Clio for a fraction of the cost of much newer cars

    The only Petrol Blue to be turbo...... Yet, maybe

    This is why i haven't just gone in and purchased anything yet, but something that's been burning away for a year or 2 now.

  39. #89
    Non-member andybond's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    The megane engine is weak. The rods bend at >300ibft. I think it could be due to the way that the car produces the torque , mine is mapped with a decat filter fmic and it has a almost vertical torque increase at 2700rpm

    the box off the r26 ( the one with the LSD ) can be had for £500

    The megane fuel system is also pretty poor and cannot fuel when getting above 400bhp. A seperate fuel cell / pump / system will need to be factored in.

    Injectors are available pretty cheaply from the states.

    Standard f4r with turbo ( incorrectly called f4rT there was no markification from renault for that one ! ) produces 230CV or around 227bhp

    Intercooler and air filter plus map will yield around 250bhp and 270ft ib
    Decat on the above + 25bhp and +30ft ib to the above
    Injectors + Turbo ( the standard one runs out of puff around 290hp ) will yield 300 hp and a capped limit of 300ft ib

    You are then going to have to forge the lump or risk a rod banana.

  40. #90
    Non-member andybond's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post

    Something achieved in having a 280bhp Clio for a fraction of the cost of much newer cars
    When me and Dean had the Clio 172 mit turbo it went like a chuffing train. Needed a LSD desperatly though.

  41. #91
    Non-member Ricardo's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Just to say i'm not looking for anything 'mental' power wise, i'm not looking for pub bragging rights/figures. I'm looking for more useable power out on road and track, to me +250bhp is a bit of a waste on a road going FWD car.

    The ED kit IMO seems to provide everything capable of giving me that...... If i can get the pistons in at a decent package price you could say it's a safeguard option, plus it's all done in one go and the lump doesnt have to be pulled apart at a later date

  42. #92
    Non-member Ricardo's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by andybond View Post
    When me and Dean had the Clio 172 mit turbo it went like a chuffing train. Needed a LSD desperatly though.
    I'll be speaking to Matt about a Quaife option

  43. #93
    Non-member andybond's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    I'm looking for more useable power out on road and track, to me +250bhp is a bit of a waste on a road going FWD car.
    I can vouch that 275bhp and 300ftib is fine on the road and track. I have drive a 451bhp meg and it felt perfect in the dry.

  44. #94
    Non-member SP33DY's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    As has been mentioned this turbo Clio on Ebay is a bargain for whats been done to it. If you've got 6K to spend then it's even under budget.

    As for the Meg engine being weak, I disagree with that. Most of the problems I've seen are from people wanting to put too much boost through them which creates stupid torque and goes hand in hand with the other problem,the fuel system. With the FPR not having a boost reference port the fuel pressure drops off as you increase the boost causing them to run lean.

    Getting rid of the clio to buy a Meg is a good idea, but you still have the same amount of work to do if you want 330+ bhp from either of them

  45. #95
    Non-member Mart's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by andybond View Post
    The rods bend at >300ibft.
    It's usually (high) rpm, and prolonged usage at that level, that kills rods, not torque.

    Imho.

  46. #96
    Non-member andybond's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by SP33DY View Post

    As for the Meg engine being weak, I disagree with that. Most of the problems I've seen are from people wanting to put too much boost through them
    I dont agree with too much boost. Two of the big renault tuners ( Henk @ Fastchips + Paul @ Rs tuning ) wont go beyond 300ib ft. They have smooth progressive maps. The engines just bend the rods.

    See the curve ?

    Last edited by andybond; 03-01-2014 at 14:56. Reason: poorly referenced

  47. #97
    Non-member andybond's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mart View Post
    It's usually (high) rpm, and prolonged usage at that level, that kills rods, not torque.

    Imho.
    Understand where you are coming from Mart , but there is a pattern on the cars that if a decat is added to a car , and more than 3--ftib is run then they rod bend. Since the self imposed limit of 300ftib has been established AFAIK there have been no bends.

  48. #98
    Non-member Mart's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by andybond View Post
    Understand where you are coming from Mart , but there is a pattern on the cars that if a decat is added to a car , and more than 3--ftib is run then they rod bend. Since the self imposed limit of 300ftib has been established AFAIK there have been no bends.
    Yada yada yada They said the same in the MLR world about Evo o.e rods failing at 400+, yet ~6 years ownership, keeping the revs the happy side of 7k, proved otherwise.

    When these F4r rods fail, is it complete failure (ie, snapped), or do they bend? What's the condition of the big-end bearings at time of rod failure?

    How many rod failures have been reported?

  49. #99
    Non-member SP33DY's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    We'll just have to disagree Andy. IMHO the turbo is too small hence the high torque at low RPM and the rapid drop off further up the rev range.

    The Meg 250 has the same basic internals, however it has VVT and a better flowing turbo, Paul is mapping them to well over 300lb/ft with out any issues

  50. #100
    Non-member andybond's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Dynamics F4R Turbo Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by SP33DY View Post

    The Meg 250 has the same basic internals, h
    Naw , its a fair bit different from what I understand. The meg rods are the same as the 172 ones.

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