Bad sellers

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Scott I feel for you mate, I really do, I have had the pleasure of doing deals with you, but it looks as if you have been burnt with this.

I recommend that Dean returns everyone at his expense and Scott provides a full refund. The reason for this is simple in Scott's advert he states it as a forged engine and naming parts....

Scott my advise is to try and get a refund from the original seller (after all I know Scott wouldn't knowingly sell something which it wernt)

If not joy Scott sell the bits separately and take a hit for your losses.

I really do feel for both of you guys, I have brought and sold many many items/cars/engines... Sometimes you get a bargin, other times you get burnt.

[StuHERTS]

Scotty is a very respectable member here, i doubt very much that he knew exactly what was in there initially but took it as gospel from previous seller.
imho, he made the mistake in advertising it as forged. Thats the be all & end all of it.

The courts will see it like that and it would be in his interest to come to some arrangement with Dean as court costs will be a lot more than the £1200.

Meet up half way, swap it all back.. lesson learned.

[Ian S]

A deal was agreed on the basis of said pistons being part of the deal.

I expect that what a magistrate would say.

From a committee point of view, I personally don't want to have to deal with this kind of BS. What makes the members think I or the other committee have the time to? I don't. I pee's me off that we have to shepherd people buying and selling. We get too much aggravation from the classifieds.

Scott you say you don't understand what you've done wrong! How can you not, what an astonishing thing for you to say? You sold something you didn't have. Now you refuse so far to make good on that. Being generous and assuming your are simply naive rather than with criminal intent, you made a mistake with advert, but it looks like intended, to deliberately deceive to increase the chance of a sale. Once the buyer had driven three hours you then changed your story to a true one and claimed ignorance. From what was said above you've increased the price over what you paid which looks like you thought you'd bought a bargain and could make some money on it.

Dean, you were caught out by being overly trusting in my opinion. Taking someone at their word with no receipts or evidence to corroborate the claims made in the advert for what was already a second had engine. Sometimes people are honest when selling stuff and often they're not.

Scott you're claiming that you're own ignorance of, and lack of interest in, this engines internal parts excuses you from falsely stating in an advert parts you knew you weren't sure you had to sell. It is dishonest. I don't think you'll find many people to say that it's not.

If the two of you can't quickly come to an amicable agreement then I suggest you ask a magistrate to decide for you.

[JRP]

Oh I see what happening here, all pm each other to back each other up because im not a member. Ill join up then!

Ive made a valid post member or not.

Theres no need for sarcy comments about returning this or that, everyone would be the same if they were in my position.

Ok so how many people have brought an engine from someone and stripped it there and then!, i doubt many. As I said, it was dark and im hardly about to take it apart on his drive.
Its only when ive done more reasearch ive found what I have. Scott should of done this before advertising the engine.

Who's pm'ing and backing up? Anybody with any sense realises this has been covered on FB too, so is aware of it. Member or not your unhappy and entitled to an opinion..

It's a pants situation

[TopCat]

Why all of a sudden are people being judge and jury with this?

This is between buyer and seller, no one else. No one can say what a court would or wouldn't say.

I appreciate its a **** situation, but the real fckin criminal in this is the chap that sold this to Scott originally.

The thread should be locked. Hopefully an AMMICABLE solution can be found between you both.

[r5_scotty]

As far as saying the advert doesnt match the description...it needs to be said that posting something on here is not like buying something in ebay. In this instance, there was no commitment to buy based on the advert alone. I gave a full verbal description before the enginr was purchased and any money changed hands. The verbal description over rules the adver, this is the advice I have been given.

[Ian S]

I wasted perhaps an hour of my time on this that I could have been doing something much better with.

A magistrates court does not have a jury. I've enough experience to have a fair idea what they say.

I think I'm correct is saying if someone sells, eg, stolen goods, then they are liable. Ignorance is not an excuse. The seller is deemed to be at fault.

When problems occur in the classifieds and threads are started we usually have to get involved so it becomes not just between buyer and seller.

And I personally strongly don't like deliberate mis-selling. This does seem to have happened here.

[DeanmGT5]

As far as saying the advert doesnt match the description...it needs to be said that posting something on here is not like buying something in ebay. In this instance, there was no commitment to buy based on the advert alone. I gave a full verbal description before the enginr was purchased and any money changed hands. The verbal description over rules the adver, this is the advice I have been given.

You have been advised wrong, an advert is an advert and your clearly stated what parts were fitted. How can you prove a verbal description?

Maybe you need to revise your advert for the shell your selling

[Lee-H]

Mahle don't even make forged aftermarket pistons for the Renault F-series engines as far as I'm aware.

The Mahle F3P pistons you have in there aren't bad at all though. Certainly better than skimmed F7P pistons, but evidently not what you believed you were buying.

[Jonny5]

Maybe you need to revise your advert for the shell your selling

Whats wrong with Glenns old shell?

[r5_scotty]

I want this resolved, but what to do. Im no lier and just to add dean no one has been pm, d etc it all upfront for all to see.
So now it seems people think I should refund for an engine in bits? And now not knowing what he has done to it? Or refund an amount to cover second hand forged pistons?

As stated , one of us comes out short......

[r5_scotty]

Whats wrong with Glenns old shell?

Nothing, thought the floor pan was twisted but had been tweaked to fit a 3inch downpipe. I didnt know this when I brought it . I got it home nd saw it. Can put pics up. But its fine was thinking of keeping it anyhow. Its so straight and rot free. keep getting told to crack on with it.

[DeanmGT5]

The engine is not in bits and hasn't been taken to bits, the sump has been removed, that's it. The numbers are visible on the pistons.

[Ian S]

How much would it have sold for / been a fair price, if stating the actual pistons it had in it?

[r5_scotty]

How much would it have sold for / been a fair price, if stating the actual pistons it had in it?

I would say 1600 ?? Thats what I was told it was worth. So thought I was doing a good deal....

[r5_scotty]

Sorry thought you ment with forged,I dont know what its worth with the others? Anyone?

[Hoolio]

From a committee point of view, I personally don't want to have to deal with this kind of BS. What makes the members think I or the other committee have the time to? I don't. I pee's me off that we have to shepherd people buying and selling. We get too much aggravation from the classifieds.
.

Was this even bought through the classifieds on here? I got the impression Dean was not a member before he came on here to create the thread when it was already being debated on FB.

[Ian S]

Can registered users not view the classifieds? I've forgotten!

I know that guests can view the 'open' classified board, but they have to ignore the rejection notice and click again.

[Lee-H]

Mahle F3Ps are about £60 + VAT each, including rings and gudgeon pin. To re-hone the block to 82.7mm would cost around £35 per cylinder. The head and deck would likely have been skimmed to make a sensible compression ratio. Probably cheaper or comparable to fit proper 82mm forged pistons in the first place.

[r5_scotty]

Was this even bought through the classifieds on here? I got the impression Dean was not a member before he came on here to create the thread when it was already being debated on FB.

No it wasnt. It was done over the phone then he viewed and brought. As said at the beginning I said was unsure f theninternals. I never looked . I brought it put it in the garage then just sold it on. Honestly sold it thinking he got a good deal...

[Red October]

Dean is a stand up guy very genuine bloke, very fair.


Open shut case.


Give him a refund simples.


I know what id be doing as talking clearly isnt going anywhere.

I bought a patio set from BnQ that was broke, they covered my time and petrol returning it, its called commor courtesy. I really dont see why so many meddling members are joining in, sometimes RTOC is a circus and we all know the clowns that work here.

Like I said its S I M P L E give him a R E F U N D..........

[car.crash]

Member or not he's still a human being.
Do the right thing Scotty. You know what to do.

[Hoolio]

Member or not he's still a human being.
Do the right thing Scotty. You know what to do.

You miss my point, if it was bought outside the club it has nothing to do with the club. This is a public forum, not the place for this kind of crap, it does the club no favours.

Edit; just seen that there is a different thread already talking through these points.

[DeanmGT5]

My worry is, if the original seller lied about the pistons, what else has he lied about

[car.crash]

You miss my point, if it was bought outside the club it has nothing to do with the club. This is a public forum, not the place for this kind of crap, it does the club no favours.

Its doing and done no harm.

[Hoolio]

Its doing and done no harm.

Really? At the very least it's not very edifying and as a window to the club I may be forgiven for thinking that this is "normal business"

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Thread closed and moved.

Hopefully this can be resolved without legal action and swiftly