Flat rate membership fee

[Mart]

How mart? Great thought but unless you get a flyer for Rtoc to every body that buys a Clio t,
It's going to be hard to get the word out.

As Matt mentioned above, get some of the rtoc'ers on ClioSport (assuming we do have members on there?) to put the word out & drum up interest.

It's a shame we're not affiliated in any way, shape or form with Renault (UK), as there would be golden opportunities there with this new Clio, but alas we're not. C'est la vie.

Thing is, as has been said numerous times before, bar putting the word around, we also need something to lure in the new members, plus then make them feel like they're getting VFM.

Or maybe we're barking up the wrong tree altogether, and not worry about the new breed of Renault Turbo's, and instead, simply concentrate on keeping rtoc afloat & its members happy?

[5teve L]

My 2 pence worth: You need to make it appealing to renew as well as get new members:

£20 for new members, £15 for renewals

We are faced with new forums/groups such as FB. Why pay RTOC when you get the same for free? Hence a lot of newbies not joining!

I think this is it, I've noticed alot of drop off at Renault 5gtturbo.com since Blunty's facebook page started, & that has over 500 members now... Looks like the way forward unfortunately

[Ian S]

The 5GTT had been out for maybe seven years before the 5GTT owners club started to get going. There was easy tuning potential, no speed cameras, and petrol was cheap.

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but the reality is probably like this:

So now, the new Clio Turbo arrives. People not interested in tuning buy them and join Cliosport to tell other new owners that they are a new owner and pat each other on the back for 1000's of posts. Then they talk about cleaning and polishing them.

Koni will announce their new FSD shocks for the Clio Turbo and some people will want them and maybe new springs. They'll fork out the cash and then talk about track days and springs ratings. Even now on RTOC after all these years that doesn't happen. People just want standard springs.

How many newish Clio Turbo owners will want to modify the engine of they less than three year old Clio Turbo. Very few I guess.

KTec and others will buy them new and have an exhaust and dump valve made ready and maybe a couple of extra psi. Then other parts as the car gets older.

By then petrol will be £10 a gallon and 250bhp will be of no interest to most people. I presume the Clio Turbo is intended to be a small and efficient car, not a fun big boost gas guzzler. Turbo'd cars will be the norm by then due to manufacturers trying to get better mpg.

[JRP]

As Matt mentioned above, get some of the rtoc'ers on ClioSport (assuming we do have members on there?) to put the word out & drum up interest.

It's a shame we're not affiliated in any way, shape or form with Renault (UK), as there would be golden opportunities there with this new Clio, but alas we're not. C'est la vie.

Thing is, as has been said numerous times before, bar putting the word around, we also need something to lure in the new members, plus then make them feel like they're getting VFM.

Or maybe we're barking up the wrong tree altogether, and not worry about the new breed of Renault Turbo's, and instead, simply concentrate on keeping rtoc afloat & its members happy?

Branching out is the way to keep afloat eventually I'd imagine

[Matt Cole]

Go on then ,you got a tent

Clee, no problem, but i will need some tools to help plug the hole!

How about 10 free t shirts, and 10 free memberships to get things moving?

Speculate to accumalate as they say!

[Mart]

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but...

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Also we have to be carefull advertising on other boards... I have tried speaking to officials on cliosport about club co-operation, offering them to officially join together for nd or pod days.... There not interested.

Clio sport spends alot if its membership fee on the membership packs, and very little on there ND...

I can see a day when RTOC won't hire a venue such as a track or pod due to lack of interest, instead we will hire a field at a Venue and camp up and just meet up (very much like the frenchies do)....

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Also we have to be carefull advertising on other boards... I have tried speaking to officials on cliosport about club co-operation, offering them to officially join together for nd or pod days.... There not interested.....

Probably because RTOC members have slated cliosport in the past....

Thing is Renault turbos are dwindling in numbers, so surely therefore the membership of the club will dwindle with the cars.

[Trevhib]

Ffs! its like groundhog day on here! I mentioned about looking into different cars in this post other day:

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=31494

only to find a thread hi-jack and sarcasm!

Maybe a fresh thread should be started with a list of objectives and dates set in place?

Just re-read that. There was no sarcasm in anyone's posts and the 'hi-jacking' was members reminiscing about times past based on the pics that were posted up! Sheesh.

The advice at the bottom wasn't used either. Why not give it a go as I'd like to see a collection of pics of the Renault-based, non-GTT, members' cars.

[Mart]

So, in a nutshell...

- No-one wants to be affiliated with RTOC, including other Renault forums & Renault UK.
- Any future breed of Renault Turbo will more than likely end up having its own forum/club, or simply bolt onto ClioSport/MeganeSport, or even the RenaultSport club itself.
- RTOC membership levels are reducing as each year passes.
- Akin to that, our National Days of the future will become non-existent.

As Trev mentioned in the other thread, it's paramount we keep this website running above anything else, even if that means knocking ND's on the head.

Simply put, if this goes, rtoc's dead & buried.

[Mart]

How are the club coffers, Ian?

I assume we're ok for hosting a ND this year?

[chris]

Theres car clubs for cars that are much rarer than ours how do they manage to keep goin and turn up at shows

[SirSamuelOfBuca]

i just renewed today. Only just saw this post.

RTOC is a great source of information. I have met a few people on here as well.

You do have groups on FB which are free and easy to get information from etc.

I like popping on here so browse the classifieds but thats all i do when i think about it.

There is not enough interest for local meets which is a shame and would keep this alive.

Not sure why other turbod renaults do not come on here seems strange to me!

[Slammed 66]

I've just joined bluntys fb group. It's great for the odd bit that comes up for sale that wouldn't appear on here due to people not wanting to pay the membership fee. It's great for what it is but it'll never be RTOC. Please don't take offence by that Andy btw.

Facebook is a ****e format. That's just how it is and can't be helped. I love RTOC and think the membership fee is a bargain. I'd happily pay £25pa but not everyone will feel the same. With fb, if you're putting nothing in (£) you'll get nothing out.

Has anyone tried contacting the twingo forum? They're quite popular with the yoof of today.

Ross

[Trevhib]

Local meets can be difficult to arrange (or difficult to get people to attend them at least). When there are only (guess) 200 active members, spread across let's say England, Scotland and Wales, there simply aren't enough people for truly local meets any more. It's more regional (if that), which means you have the majority travelling a lot further than from Derby to Notts for example. With the cost of fuel playing a much bigger part in decision-making these days, it doesn't help.

As has been said times-a-many, this club has to either deal with its shrinking size (i.e. accept it and adjust expectations), or change direction, which would mean having a committee full of people who want to take on that challenge. At the moment I don't believe there is a will (even if changing direction was the right choice).

I have wondered before what the RTOC numbers are likely to go down to. At some stage the number of GTTs being scrapped will flatten out. The number being rebuilt has increased a lot in the last couple of years. Perhaps we'll find membership numbers stabilising over the next 2-3yrs.

Smaller numbers means it's easier to organise and I imagine the classic car brigade, where member numbers in clubs are more like 150 (another guess), find it easier to get out to shows. They are usually older as well so can afford the petrol and entry fees. One day RTOC will probably be like that. It's not the end of the world if that's the outcome (although I'm not necessarily saying that's what I'd want ideally).

[Alex]

We've veered slightly off the membership price track here! I appreciate all the comments non the less.

So, in general we're happy to alter the fees. Good, I'll take this forward. When/if the change occurs I'll be promoting it as best I can so people outside the RTOC are aware.

Re other issues i.e dwindling members, worries for future ND's/club subsistance etc. The problem is the committee consists of perhaps 10 members, of which perhaps half that are what you would call 'active' members' so getting anything done can be a mission in itself! Ideally IMO we need more 'dedicated roles' within the committee. A few good members have left the club over the last 6 months or so and I think it's been felt.

[Big Steve - Raider]

So, in a nutshell...

Blah blah blah blah....

Simply put, if this goes, rtoc's dead & buried.

NOW who's being downbeat!?

[Trevhib]

I think the two things are inextricable Alex. The subs should be geared according to what members are getting back.

For example. If we ditched ND and one or two other expense-laden club facets (that's not a suggestion), then I'd say no to paying £15 a year if the income from subs is say £5000 p.c.d (as I guess it is now). As that should be more than enough for the website and the odd cost here and there.

[Ian S]

How are the club coffers, Ian?

I assume we're ok for hosting a ND this year?

Well the 2012 budget was blown on this years ND with what can be only be approximated to about £5k loss. 2012, the RTOC seems to be about even, ie, no surplus and no loss. Though I think it's the first year since 2006 that no surplus was made.

So the bottom line is that we can afford the ND in 2013 but if we want to spend on the website we won't have a 2014 ND as we'll likely make a big loss this year. PFC say they just spent £10k on their new websites.

Re Pod, there no mention of it in the committee apart from me saying we probably won't be able to have it this year based on the lack interest last year and the impending total loss until Miller got involved at the Pod on the day itself and sold the tickets at reduced price.

The bottom bottom line is the club has a few good say'ers but not enough do'ers.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

As it is the club can afford to subside a nd(but only 1venue such as pod/trackday), for this year and hopefully in the next coming years the same...

When demand does down and we don't have the numbers for a Venue like pod/etc we will have to look at change, website don't cost that much as we are lucky scoff did most of the programming & design... So if we decide not to hire a big venue membership cost will go down as remember rtoc is owned and run by the members unlike many other car forums...

[Ian S]

That is a good point that Penfold makes, we could drop the ND and charge less for memberships.

The subsidy for the 2012 ND would seem to be about £50 per head for each person that attended.

We have to consider how much good such an expensive ND does the club and whether we'd have more members if the fees were a lot less.

There is a risk with going to a flat rate of £15. If the numbers for joiners and renewals stay the same then the club will lose about £750. The hope is that there will be more than 50 new members and the renewals will not drop due to the £5 extra.

Another consideration is the advertising spend. The worth of this could be divided by the number of new members responding to the ads. At £15, we'd need a lot more joiners to meet the adversing fee.

[Ian S]

The website's vB 3.7 is way out of date. Eventually we may be forced to update it. Scoff won't be able to do it for free next time and if we want to keep a site with features like we have then we'll have to pay. Or just have a very basic forum.

[Nottswoody]

Yup I will pay the extra no probs you guys have saved me much more.. I will admit one thing though I use the fb page because its easier to load pics up off my iPhone as I don't have a pc.. But I'm still here everyday and iv been to the events available so far.. Rtoc for life well the 5s life I promote this place everyday and every chance I can as the stickers are in my windows but I can't see it doing any good as I haven't seen another Renault turbo in nottingham at all.. Just do it!!

[Nottswoody]

Cancel ND it's what I'm aiming for I can go to pod any day I like but I can't go to a ND.. Oh no no no

[Mart]

NOW who's being downbeat!?

Not at all mate - It's just a summary of pretty much what's already been posted in this thread.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Cancel ND it's what I'm aiming for I can go to pod any day I like but I can't go to a ND.. Oh no no no

I don't see us cancelling nd anytime soon, but what we could do with is not making such a loss....

[Ian S]

I can, not this years, but if looses even more than last year, and the membership income drops, there simply won't be the funds to pay for a 2014. If 2014 goes ahead based on optimism and also loses then the club won't be able to pay for the other costs like advertising and web hosting. It may even be bankrupt at that point. Currently, there are the funds in reserve to be sure that even after a total loss at the ND the club can still keep going.

Clearly, if the ND broke even like it maybe did 2011 and nearly so in 2010, they could carry on. But not at the kind of loss of the 2012. And not if Blyton raise their prices. Apparently Donnington doubled their prices this year which is why the FCS had to go elsewhere, namley, Castle Coombe.

[Nottswoody]

What were the losses? What cost so much? Was it people just not turning up not paying? Have we even asked who's going? Who's will to pay upfront? I know I haven't been asked and I consider myself as an active member imagine what the non actives feel like. Perhaps put strippers on with big titties!!!

Let's see who's reading

[Ian S]

Advertising spend:
2010 £1017
2011 £1380
2012 £1332

2010: membership fees income = £9155
2011: membership fees income = £8005
2012: membership fees income = £8550

Various website hosting costs:
Maybe £2000 or so.

Event losses:
maybe £6000?

On that basis in 2012 the RTOC lost about £650. Can't be easily sure but it might be a bit less loss.

[Ian S]

Have we even asked who's going?

Tickets always go on sale months before events and much noise is made about it.

[dangerous dave]

Cliosport, the club that takes money off a hell of a lot of members but no one is willing to tell you where it goes..

Is there a club account, do they put on an event with it?

Answer = go away, it's nothing to do with you..

We would never be able to get involved with them unless you allow there hosts to pocket the rtoc bank account and not tell you what there doing with it..

[Big Steve - Raider]

I don't see us cancelling nd anytime soon, but what we could do with is not making such a loss....

Ok so this year we will just have the hire of Blyton Park and a p1$$ up in the field.

• No Show & Shine (I wouldn't touch it with a frikkin barge pole anyway )
• No Rolling Road (be it free to members or members pay for it on the day)
• No Disco in the barn
• No Rally Plaque's
• No stickers etc

I estimate binning that lot off would save the club somewhere in the region of £1.5 - £2K?

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Cliosport, the club that takes money off a hell of a lot of members but no one is willing to tell you where it goes..

Is there a club account, do they put on an event with it?

Answer = go away, it's nothing to do with you..

We would never be able to get involved with them unless you allow there hosts to pocket the rtoc bank account and not tell you what there doing with it..

Difference is Cliosport is run as a Business..... so why should they tell you anything?

I can tell you now for £12, you get alot with cliosport... you get a nice membership pack (cost to you door are estimated at £8.50), so the club then has £3.50 per member to use on running website etc... now a huge profit to be had but considering the guy who made it originally dont have to do much & is most likely a website designer = a nice tidy income per year & no doubt dont just own Cliosport....

[Nottswoody]

Ok so this year we will just have the hire of Blyton Park and a p1$$ up in the field.

• No Show & Shine (I wouldn't touch it with a frikkin barge pole anyway )
• No Rolling Road (be it free to members or members pay for it on the day)
• No Disco in the barn
• No Rally Plaque's
• No stickers etc

I estimate binning that lot off would save the club somewhere in the region of £1.5 - £2K?

Agreed with all plus sets up another day at the scoffs

[Trevhib]

As long as the ND is not allowed to continue to the point where there is no money to service (and upgrade), the website. Risk management! Lol.

We don't want to get to the point where we're find we being forced to upgrade the website and then are told there's no money to do so due to last year's ND losses leaving us with only website maintenance money.... If you catch my drift.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

A couple of motor clubs do their 'special day' as a a separate business so as not to endanger the actual club if it goes a bit tits up. Just a random ramble/suggestion.
For example Sevenoaks and district motor club run the crystal palace sprint, the only motorsport in London. Shall I see if a stand is available this year for RTOC??

[Slammed 66]

I've heard about website upgrades on other threads on here. Now, I'm not even slightly computer minded so maybe I'm missing something but why would there be a need to upgrade? For what it's worth I think the site looks great. Why fix something that isn't broken?

Ross

[Nottswoody]

I haven't really been to Landon but I'd travel I'd love to dump all over London bridge

[Big Steve - Raider]

Shall I see if a stand is available this year for RTOC??

Yes Matt. Its not that I dislike smaller shows/meetings as some people suggest, I just don't have the time to arrange everything.

If you want to lead it and arrange it then I'd support you where I can.

[Ian S]

Why fix something that isn't broken?

Hardware and software move on all the time. Eventually you have to update or what you got stops working.

[Slammed 66]

Hardware and software move on all the time. Eventually you have to update or what you got stops working.

Cool

I wasn't being pedantic, I just really am unaware of Internet stuff.

Ross

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Yes Matt. Its not that I dislike smaller shows/meetings as some people suggest, I just don't have the time to arrange everything.

If you want to lead it and arrange it then I'd support you where I can.

Small show?? Hehehe!
Over 5000 paying visitors last year ......

[Ian S]

That show might not be small but the number of people from RTOC who go there will be.

Same with Enfield Motor Pageant. A member did his own RTOC stand last year due to nil support from the RTOC, I couldn't even get anyone to send him the banners the club owns, and there were about four people with 5GTTs or other Renaults.

[Matt Cole]

Branching out is the way to keep afloat eventually I'd imagine

[Ian S]

I wasn't being pedantic, I just really am unaware of Internet stuff.

Just say that one day a hacker finds a way into vB 3.7, it's not supported any more and then it stops working as everyone was expected to be on or near their latest version.

18 months ago we had to get quite a bit of the 'under pinning' re-done so it would work with this LAMP server we're on, as the site was more or less non working on the previous server and fairly slow and faulty on the one before that.

Alas, someone, not me, deleted the original and only copy before the work was complete and deleted members profile photos and left some problems that have not been repairable.

People want mobile facilities that this version doesn't have. They want features this version can't have.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

That show might not be small but the number of people from RTOC who go there will be.

Same with Enfield Motor Pageant. A member did his own RTOC stand last year due to nil support from the RTOC, I couldn't even get anyone to send him the banners the club owns, and there were about four people with 5GTTs or other Renaults.

My point was.... There is a potential of 5000 people seeing a club that caters for turbo charged renaults, it may help with potential members to aid the club.
Ian, thanks for that, if the club wants to implode and moan about it then so be it....
That chap at the Enfield show deserves a medal.

[w35ty]

Il pay that all day.. £15 is nothing for all the knowledge info etc and then meeting people off here for a chat wen buying, meets etc its all worth it!!

[Ian S]

Branching out is the way to keep afloat eventually I'd imagine

Easy to say.

Branch out to where?

Who's going to do this branching out? It's not going to be me. So anyone who will please let us know

A large part of the problem is not lack of branching out, it lack of manpower to get anything like that done.

As far as I know there was no RTOC at any shown last year, apart from just mentioned which had nil to do with the RTOC really.

And despite booking Pod, no-one seemed to know it was happening.

So much for putting the word about.

[Matt Cole]

As Matt mentioned above, get some of the rtoc'ers on ClioSport (assuming we do have members on there?) to put the word out & drum up interest.

It's a shame we're not affiliated in any way, shape or form with Renault (UK), as there would be golden opportunities there with this new Clio, but alas we're not. C'est la vie.

Thing is, as has been said numerous times before, bar putting the word around, we also need something to lure in the new members, plus then make them feel like they're getting VFM.

Or maybe we're barking up the wrong tree altogether, and not worry about the new breed of Renault Turbo's, and instead, simply concentrate on keeping rtoc afloat & its members happy?

as mentioned above , we need to start offering incentives to meg sport , twingo , r21, etc. I wasn't joking regarding the free memberships , raffle a few t shirts etc etc. if we got say ten new meg sport members and all go back and tell other members............ Then there is the possibility of them buying a national day ticket! The club shop needs to expand with other turbo model parts , could even be a simple start as a Renault sport badge!

[JRP]

Ian, don't dig me out.. Not impressed mate. That was also in relation to FB, and with your seemingly negative stance ( just how it reads) we won't get anywhere