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  1. #1
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    gordini heads??

    hi just been looking into the history of renault 5's the first of the renault 5's the gordini and gordini turbo had cross flowed heads which produce better performance for several reasons,bigger valves,lower intake temperatures, better flow of gasses no change in direction. so why did renault change this in the later design the gt turbo when we all could have had more power and would have been better for renault lol

    how much does the head conversion cost rougly what are the parts needed so far i noticed

    new water pump built into water system customized
    exhaust manifold customized
    intake manifold/throttle bodies customized
    something done with end of cam that comes out of head?

    what else is needed?
    does the head bolt pattern match or machining needed??
    ecu needed? or can you still use carb setup?

    what power would you be able to get? would you keep the gordini t3 or use a t25 or t28 for best power/less lag???

  2. #2
    Non-member raj's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    its been discussed quite abit,
    as far as im aware, its alot easier to go down the b18ft route as doing the crossflow head conversion is a tad bit costly.

  3. #3
    Non-member The new Bill J's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyshaw49 View Post
    hi just been looking into the history of renault 5's the first of the renault 5's the gordini and gordini turbo had cross flowed heads which produce better performance for several reasons,bigger valves,lower intake temperatures, better flow of gasses no change in direction. so why did renault change this in the later design the gt turbo when we all could have had more power and would have been better for renault lol
    Did you really laugh out loud after you typed that? I'm struggling to see how it was even remotely funny

  4. #4
    Non-member Schakal's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by The new Bill J View Post
    Did you really laugh out loud after you typed that? I'm struggling to see how it was even remotely funny

    flol

  5. #5
    Non-member markey b's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    I didn't say a word this time, or a three letter word... LO.... I mean tee hee.

  6. #6
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    Re: gordini heads??

    i searched gordini head in search function couldnt find much where r the threads, id rather have a gordini head than b18 engine wouldnt u, KEEP IT RENAULT!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by jonnyshaw49; 20-12-2009 at 20:16.

  7. #7
    Non-member raj's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyshaw49 View Post
    i searched gordini head in search function couldnt find much where r the threads, id rather have a gordini head than b18 engine wouldnt u, KEEP IT RENAULT!!!!!!!!
    the b18ft IS a renault

  8. #8
    Non-member markey b's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    whats wrong with keeping a whole c1j? look here:

    https://www.rtoc.org/cgi-bin/leader_board.cgi

  9. #9
    Look-Out Kris M's Avatar
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  10. #10
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyshaw49 View Post
    i searched gordini head in search function couldnt find much where r the threads, id rather have a gordini head than b18 engine wouldnt u, KEEP IT RENAULT!!!!!!!!
    well, no, because the gordini will cost an arm and a leg to build and will make no more power than the more reliable, quieter, torqier, fuel efficient Renauly 1.7 turbo engine

  11. #11
    Member Woznaldo's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by markey b View Post
    whats wrong with keeping a whole c1j? look here:

    https://www.rtoc.org/cgi-bin/leader_board.cgi
    Holy crapoli, where have I been hiding? When did Gianni Santi pull an 11.14?!?

    Sorry for the hijack

  12. #12
    Non-member markey b's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    may this year according to the table :ho:

  13. #13
    Committee Member Sparkie's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by markey b View Post
    may this year according to the table :ho:
    message must have got there via carrier pigeon

  14. #14
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    Re: gordini heads??

    the b18 has less torque standard than the c1j engine doesnt it. b18 has 175nm or torque and c1j with t2 189 nm . isnt the b18 the only renauklt engine they fit in the volvo meant to be the most unreliable engine volvo fitted to there cars. according to alll the old boys at volvo.

    i was just thinking of a gordini head because there ment to be more reliable and produce more power as being a cross flow head.

  15. #15
    Non-member Brigsy's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    From what ive heard off various people who have used the volvo turbo lump its far from unreliable, Bulletproof compared to the c1j..

  16. #16
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    I can see where Jonny is comin from, a gordini headed C1J has a couple of advantages over the B18, namely there's no messing around making a different engine fit as easy as it maybe and its still a 1.4 so dead cheap on tax

    I'd do a gordini head conversion if I had the time and money

  17. #17
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyshaw49 View Post
    the b18 has less torque standard than the c1j engine doesnt it. b18 has 175nm or torque and c1j with t2 189 nm . isnt the b18 the only renauklt engine they fit in the volvo meant to be the most unreliable engine volvo fitted to there cars. according to alll the old boys at volvo.

    i was just thinking of a gordini head because there ment to be more reliable and produce more power as being a cross flow head.

    I'm not talking about the meaningless peak torque figures, I'm talking about the general feel of the engine. Have a drive in a volvo powered R5 or some other equally as light car and you'll wonder why the hell you've been playing with that sewing maching of an engine, the C1J.

    most unreliable ? I don't know what to make of that statement, maybe they're comparing it with other equally sturdy volvo units ? I don't know, but I hazard that they are not comparing it with the C1J. I've been around both the b18ft and c1j for 10yrs and experimented extensively with both and I assure you that the b18ft wins every time in terms of reliabilty.

    But OK, it's got volvo stamped on it's manifold, and I realise that some people like to stick close to OE for some inexplicable reasons, and that's fair enough if it's what you really want, but don't try and convince yourself that it's the best option because it's better. Heck, if you wanted a powerfull, relaiable engine you should turbo charge a 16v motor. Half the work of an xflow conversion and twice the output.

  18. #18
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    Re: gordini heads??

    good comment, yeh at volvo they wernt comparing to c1j but comparing with other engines, i have never been in a r5 wth b18 so cant comment on the torque but bet its fun. the b18 is going to be more reliable because its a 1.7 and not a 1.4 so doesnt have to be pushed as hard to get the high power figures. is the turbo on a b18 a td04 same as the seat leons,what is the most power you can get out of a standard block and turbo on the b18 just messing with the fueling,psi and intercooler etc ,not engine mods?i think the gordini conversions look amazing though .

    talking about 16v engines a lad i know has supercharged gti engine in a citroen saxo producing 270 bhp at the wheels ,he took it to rockingham and was overtaking clio v6's and the top spec megane,not much would stick with it.

  19. #19
    Committee Member Sparkie's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyshaw49 View Post
    talking about 16v engines a lad i know has supercharged gti engine in a citroen saxo producing 270 bhp at the wheels ,he took it to rockingham and was overtaking clio v6's and the top spec megane,not much would stick with it.

    so he was overtaking cars with less power and more weight than him?

  20. #20
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Opps forgot the other advantage of the C1J over the B18, when the Aston Db9 pulls up behind you in the petrol staion off the duel carrageway and says "bloody hell, I couldn't pull away from you, what you got in that thing? a 2 litre turbo engine? "

    And you respond " nope just a 1.4 8valve pushrod lump"



    As far as tyhe B18 conversion goes, yeah I'm sure it makes a damn sight better power more reliably than a C1J but if your going to all the hassle of dropping in a different engine to maximum power why limit yourself with an 8valve single OHC engine, why drop a 1.8 or 2.0 litre 16v and bolt a turbo, 300bhp easy.

    You'd already be fitting a stand alone ecu so thats taken care of, you'd have to change the fuel pressure reg to suit the B18 so nothing extra there, the mounts are gunna take abit more work and the bottom end would need improvement to take a decent amount of boost, but when you can get 300bhp out a 1.8 16v for roughly 3 - 2.5grand why waste time on a B18?

  21. #21
    Non-member markey b's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Os8472 View Post
    Opps forgot the other advantage of the C1J over the B18, when the Aston Db9 pulls up behind you in the petrol staion off the duel carrageway and says "bloody hell, I couldn't pull away from you, what you got in that thing? a 2 litre turbo engine? "

    And you respond " nope just a 1.4 8valve pushrod lump"



    As far as tyhe B18 conversion goes, yeah I'm sure it makes a damn sight better power more reliably than a C1J but if your going to all the hassle of dropping in a different engine to maximum power why limit yourself with an 8valve single OHC engine, why drop a 1.8 or 2.0 litre 16v and bolt a turbo, 300bhp easy.

    You'd already be fitting a stand alone ecu so thats taken care of, you'd have to change the fuel pressure reg to suit the B18 so nothing extra there, the mounts are gunna take abit more work and the bottom end would need improvement to take a decent amount of boost, but when you can get 300bhp out a 1.8 16v for roughly 3 - 2.5grand why waste time on a B18?
    or a v12 vanquish

  22. #22
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by markey b View Post
    or a v12 vanquish
    yeah that too, the look on the guys face was priceless lol

  23. #23
    Non-member GTphil's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    is the turbo on a b18 a td04 same as the seat leons,what is the most power you can get out of a standard block and turbo on the b18 just messing with the fueling,psi and intercooler etc ,not engine mods?i think the gordini conversions look amazing though .


    I think the the standard turbo is a t2 that runs 4psi in true volvo fashion pretty pointless!

  24. #24
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Os8472 View Post
    O

    As far as tyhe B18 conversion goes, yeah I'm sure it makes a damn sight better power more reliably than a C1J but if your going to all the hassle of dropping in a different engine to maximum power why limit yourself with an 8valve single OHC engine, why drop a 1.8 or 2.0 litre 16v and bolt a turbo, 300bhp easy.
    I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said at the end of my post

    You talk about hassle, but compare it with the inordinate amount of hassle that an xflow is, with it's custom manifolds, custom camshaft, management and all the rest. The volvo will drop right in and run with 3 wires. It's just so much of a no-brainer it isn't worth discussing.

    ...and if the only advantage of keeping the 1.4 is so that you can belittle the pretentious bunch, then you've just confirmed to me that I made the right choice by switching away from the rattly old pushrod smoker when I did

    (don't take me too seriously guys, just having a laugh )

  25. #25
    Non-member Adam L's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    If he's so adamant on the Gordini head conversion, let him ask Andrew Cooke and Danny Kennedy how much it cost them to do theirs. Then forgetting cost, the amount of time it took them to finish (with lazy periods inbetween).

  26. #26
    Committee, Moderator Matt Cole's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    If you fancy muchos hassle, grab yourself a 225 lump and away you go!! If had gordini bits lying around, then fair enough, but as said, B18 a go.

  27. #27
    Non-member GTphil's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    C1j = Bezzi buddies with mr aa man

    https://www.rtoc.org/boards/album.php...&pictureid=931

    If you want serious power I think it's been proven that the c1j won't give it you. So buy another car with a better engine or put a better engine in your car.

    If I was a bit more flush I know what I would be doing

  28. #28
    Non-member rs250nut's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by GTphil View Post
    C1j = Bezzi buddies with mr aa man

    https://www.rtoc.org/boards/album.php...&pictureid=931

    If you want serious power I think it's been proven that the c1j won't give it you. So buy another car with a better engine or put a better engine in your car.

    If I was a bit more flush I know what I would be doing
    Ganni santi 11.14 nuff said. No matter what renault/volvo engine you decide to use your limiting factor is always going to be the gearbox. Unless you can fit another gearbox from another car

  29. #29
    Non-member Rob@Backyardracing's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Hmmmm, gordini builds have had some good results but like said take alot of effort to build with other easier options to get good results.. But the Q is what results do you want??? Ive been in only a couple volvo powered 5s and both did shock me to how fast they are but ive never seen great results yet on the strip to show its true power (yet)? 16v is a good way to go and 1.8 valver engines cost pennys and maybe a cheap base to start.....

    Scoff stop being so anti C1J we all know its a great little motor for £ vs BHP and repair costs are next to nothing..

  30. #30
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said at the end of my post

    You talk about hassle, but compare it with the inordinate amount of hassle that an xflow is, with it's custom manifolds, custom camshaft, management and all the rest. The volvo will drop right in and run with 3 wires. It's just so much of a no-brainer it isn't worth discussing.

    ...and if the only advantage of keeping the 1.4 is so that you can belittle the pretentious bunch, then you've just confirmed to me that I made the right choice by switching away from the rattly old pushrod smoker when I did

    (don't take me too seriously guys, just having a laugh )
    Ok so its not a massive amount of hassle but it is changing an engine, why do an engine swap when the rewards arn't the best they can be.

    Be honest Scoff, did the B18 ever cross your mind before you settled on the F7r?

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    Re: gordini heads??

    os, (and rob), no the B18 wasn't an option for me because I knew I would struggle making good power with it. I've already said that we topped out at 230hp, no matter what we did, short of changing the camshaft for something custom.

    I was a bit of a cheat, I wanted a lot of power easilly, so the F4R was ofcourse the way to go. I'm really interested to see how Markey mark gets on with his highly tuned B18 drag motor, that might open a few people's eyes

  32. #32
    Non-member BlueFish5Gt's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said at the end of my post

    the only advantage of keeping the 1.4 is so that you can belittle the pretentious bunch
    That was my original goal when I started with this car.The only think that has been belittled till now is my pride and my bank account.

  33. #33
    Non-member GTphil's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by rs250nut View Post
    Ganni santi 11.14 nuff said. No matter what renault/volvo engine you decide to use your limiting factor is always going to be the gearbox. Unless you can fit another gearbox from another car


    Yes, he has undoubtedly made an awful lot of power out of the little old c1j but is it really so amazing? If you look at some of the civic engines ect and what scoff has done with his engine, end of the day there are much better much more modern engines that can make much more power.
    Don't get me wrong I love the c1j and I love that fact that a lot of modern "standard" so called hot haches can't live with a tuned c1j.

  34. #34
    Non-member Adam L's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    The main difference there is he's running alot of nitrous, where as other cars trapping at 130mph aren't running any. Although 130mph isn't to be snubbed at.

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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Os8472 View Post
    why do an engine swap when the rewards arn't the best they can be.
    You keep asking me irrelivent questions I don't know the answer, why would you fit something less than the best ? Maybe because it's cheaper, or more reliable, or any number of other reasons.

    The toss up was between the Xflow and Volvo engine, so I made some relivent comments.

  36. #36
    Non-member markey b's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by rs250nut View Post
    Ganni santi 11.14 nuff said. No matter what renault/volvo engine you decide to use your limiting factor is always going to be the gearbox. Unless you can fit another gearbox from another car
    cue scoff and his VAG box

  37. #37
    Non-member markey b's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post

    ...and if the only advantage of keeping the 1.4 is so that you can belittle the pretentious bunch, then you've just confirmed to me that I made the right choice by switching away from the rattly old pushrod smoker when I did

    (don't take me too seriously guys, just having a laugh )
    you'd only be in trouble with a select few if you fitted a dump valve

  38. #38
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    You keep asking me irrelivent questions I don't know the answer, why would you fit something less than the best ? Maybe because it's cheaper, or more reliable, or any number of other reasons.

    The toss up was between the Xflow and Volvo engine, so I made some relivent comments.
    Don't worry about it bud, I'm in mischievous mood at the minute causing chaos where ever I go

  39. #39
    Non-member steveR5GTT's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    as the saying goes "there's no replacement for displacement"

  40. #40
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by steveR5GTT View Post
    as the saying goes "there's no replacement for displacement"
    Tell that to the F1 designers, or the engineers at Yamaha responsible for the R1 and the like

    The saying should read "There's no replacement for volumetric efficiency" - but that wouldn't be as catchy

  41. #41
    Non-member Rob@Backyardracing's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    Tell that to the F1 designers, or the engineers at Yamaha responsible for the R1 and the like

    The saying should read "There's no replacement for volumetric efficiency" - but that wouldn't be as catchy
    something i feel the volvo head lacks....

  42. #42
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing View Post
    something i feel the volvo head lacks....

    maybe, but I suspect it's better than people generally think. The camshaft is dreadfull though.

  43. #43
    Non-member Markey Mark (BD)'s Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    maybe, but I suspect it's better than people generally think. The camshaft is dreadfull though.
    Thankgod i've improved both then (hopefully ).

  44. #44
    Non-member raj's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing View Post
    we all know its a great little motor for £ vs BHP and repair costs are next to nothing..
    i agree, but to be honest the amount of absolute ballache ive had with the c1j, previous cars included is unreal. it always comes down to a problem i just cannot get to the bottom of
    i for one can not wait to wash my hands of the c1j.

  45. #45
    Look-Out Kris M's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    I know people always like modifying / playing with the c1j, but raise the hands of people who have a nice standard little c1j that just keeps going and going and going ??

    O.E FTW :ho:

  46. #46
    Non-member markey b's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    even i seem to have an everlasting c1j... in the raider

  47. #47
    Non-member DK DEVELOPMENTS's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    When I was thinking about the choice of engine for my car an engine from another car or another model did not intrest me as I wanted to keep the car all Renault 5.

    The Clio engine is by far a cheaper option and has had great results but lets face it a C1J is still top of the drag leader board and In my eye's the car was on road legal tyre's would he not be in the ten's if he was on slick's?

  48. #48
    Non-member steveR5GTT's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by DK DEVELOPMENTS View Post
    When I was thinking about the choice of engine for my car an engine from another car or another model did not intrest me as I wanted to keep the car all Renault 5.

    The Clio engine is by far a cheaper option and has had great results but lets face it a C1J is still top of the drag leader board and In my eye's the car was on road legal tyre's would he not be in the ten's if he was on slick's?
    Ill place a good wedge down that c1j is not at the top of the leader board by the end of 2010, im not diagreeing with your points and ive seen your build in progress and looks like an amazing build, just think that within the next year we are goin to see alot more engine conversions happening and more and more people steppin into the 11s and even the 10s

  49. #49
    Non-member Rob@Backyardracing's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Really Scoffs car should have been top on the board this year, its more than capable of 10`s just hasnt had much luck with the ratios as such.. Look at the vids, in 3rd its hauling... As for santi car maybe on a full walled drag wheel then a better 60ft would be on the cards as 1.9 60fts isnt fast at all.. and that would put the carb fed c1j in the 10s.... so a dini head and proper manifolds etc would easy see you in 10s.. Look at Andy cooks dini car many years ago, no interest in drag racing, tunned for the hills and makes a 120 trap seem a walk in the park.. But we arguing about two different engines and anyone would expect the modern 16v to take the win.. but to see a c1j BLOCK running well in to the 10s is awsome...

    I think 140mph traps is more the aim and better target for a couple of us on here this next year

  50. #50
    Non-member allanr5gtt's Avatar
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    Re: gordini heads??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing View Post
    Really Scoffs car should have been top on the board this year, its more than capable of 10`s just hasnt had much luck with the ratios as such.. Look at the vids, in 3rd its hauling... As for santi car maybe on a full walled drag wheel then a better 60ft would be on the cards as 1.9 60fts isnt fast at all.. and that would put the carb fed c1j in the 10s.... so a dini head and proper manifolds etc would easy see you in 10s.. Look at Andy cooks dini car many years ago, no interest in drag racing, tunned for the hills and makes a 120 trap seem a walk in the park.. But we arguing about two different engines and anyone would expect the modern 16v to take the win.. but to see a c1j BLOCK running well in to the 10s is awsome...

    I think 140mph traps is more the aim and better target for a couple of us on here this next year
    what do you mean by scoff's car was hauling in 3rd ?

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